Nurturing Your Soul, Spirituality, + Holiness Belief Structures

George was at a Styx and Foreigner concert with his wife when a stranger sitting in front of them turned around and warned them: "Hey. Just so you know, you might not want to sit behind me. I stand up."

What happened next became the highlight of his weekend.

This episode digs into one of the most uncomfortable but essential conversations we can have: nurturing your soul. Whether you call it holiness, spirituality, or something else entirely, this isn't about religion. It's about the core of who you are and why ignoring it might be costing you everything.

The Guy Who Knew Every Word

When the music started, the long-haired stranger stood up. He knew every word. He had hand gestures. He was banging his head. He was completely, unapologetically himself.

George leaned over to his wife and said, "That dude is making me happy right now."

Then something interesting happened. Three women came over just to take a photo with him. A few songs later, two guys ran up and started headbanging alongside him.

Girls wanted photos with him. Guys just wanted to be him.

His energy was infectious. In a crowd of thousands, he was the one rippling joy outward just by being fully himself. That's what freedom looks like. That's what happens when someone is living from their soul.

This Conversation Almost Didn't Happen

George has been circling this topic for months. He's made no secret of his faith on this podcast, but he's also apologized before the words even leave his mouth. There's been verbal scaffolding. Disclaimers. Discomfort.

Why?

Because he's been on both sides of the fence. He's seen religion wielded like a weapon. He's watched people get hurt by it. And his biggest fear isn't how people will perceive him. It's that he might become a stumbling block to someone else's spiritual journey.

"I'm not trying to wield a religious 2 by 4 over my shoulder and beat you into submission or make you feel guilty for who you are or where you're at in your spiritual journey right now."

This conversation is for believers and non-believers alike. Because nurturing your soul isn't about converting anyone. It's about the essence of who you are.

From Bouncer to Pastor and Back Again

George's spiritual journey has been anything but linear.

He didn't start going to church consistently until he was 14, when neighbors in Montana started taking him on Sunday mornings, Sunday nights, and Wednesday nights. By 17 and a half, he was in the Navy as a high school dropout. That wasn't exactly a breeding ground for spiritual growth.

By 20, he was working at Faith Ranch, partly to avoid being homeless and partly because he felt called to ministry. He went from teaching kids about Jesus for three and a half years to selling furniture in Cleveland.

Along the way, he studied Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, and other world religions. By 24, he thought Christians were the most hypocritical people on the planet. By 27, he was in school to become a pastor. By 30, he was a youth pastor. By 32, he was out of the church because they "lost 12 giving units."

Twelve families. Twelve humans. Gone over political church politics.

"I'm the only guy that I know who has gone from bouncer at a bar to pastor at a church."

The entire journey taught him something crucial: this isn't about a specific religion. It's about what we cultivate at our core.

What If We've Had It Backwards?

Here's the flip that changed everything for George.

Most people say they're "just a human trying to have a spiritual experience" when they go to worship or do something sacred.

But what if it's the exact opposite?

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

That quote comes from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and George thought he'd invented the idea before he found it. When you realize this, a different set of dominoes starts to fall.

You stop seeing your soul as something to find someday. You start seeing it as the foundation you're already standing on.

We Are More the Same Than We Are Different

When George dug into how different traditions approach holiness, he found surprising common ground.

Christians connect with God through prayer, worship, and following the Bible. Muslims find holiness through the five pillars of Islam. Hindus follow their dharma and practice selfless actions. Buddhists strive for enlightenment through the eightfold path.

But it doesn't stop with religion.

Humanism focuses on living ethically, being kind, and pursuing personal growth. Secular mindfulness uses meditation and awareness to find inner peace. Stoicism teaches wisdom and self-control. Existentialism encourages authentic living and creating your own sense of purpose.

The threads that run through all of them? Ethics. Compassion. Growth. Inner peace. Community. Responsibility. Meaning.

"What I would want the listeners to understand is that we are more the same than we are different."

Want Proof of God? Study Science.

Liz's pathway to soul work came through an unexpected door: astronomy.

Carl Sagan, one of the most famous scientists of the 20th century, wrote about a photo taken by Voyager 1 as it passed Saturn. Earth appears as a tiny pale blue dot, a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

On that dot, Sagan wrote, is everyone you've ever loved, every hero and coward, every saint and sinner, every king and peasant who ever lived.

That's not from a Bible. That's from an astronomer.

Sagan also wrote: "Science is not only compatible with spirituality, it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual."

The notion that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.

Why Nurturing Your Soul Isn't Optional

George's soul work has been his anchor, his GPS, his everything.

His belief about time came from Faith Ranch after he almost died in the Navy. His understanding of humility came from the same place. The blessing bomber mentality came from being a pastor when a prophetess touched his shoulder and said, "When are you going to realize you're the blessing?"

Every major lesson flowed from seasons where he was nurturing his core.

"It's the thing that while I've walked away from religion, and while even sometimes I felt like I may have walked away from God, I've never been able to really walk away from the holiness, the spiritual, the essence, the core, the guide who has always brought me back to where I believe that I'm supposed to be."

Three Ways to Start Nurturing Your Soul Today

1. Take time for yourself. Set aside a few minutes every day to reflect on your thoughts, feelings, and actions. Start with just 5 minutes in the morning or before bed. Watch how it transforms your self-awareness.

Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

2. Build meaningful connections. Join a support group. Go to a worship service. Show up at a community event. Call a friend without waiting for them to call you first. These connections provide the support and understanding we all need on this journey.

3. Embrace the benefits. Nurturing your soul leads to better mental health, greater resilience, and a more profound sense of fulfillment. Pay attention to the rewards. Celebrate them. Share your journey and hear other people's stories.

As Rumi wrote, "When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy."

One More Path: Get Curious

Liz offered this advice: stop searching for soul work. Just get curious.

Read a book. Learn about something that fascinates you. History. Science. Art. Anything that pulls you outside your own bubble.

Science is like the ultimate parent. You keep asking why until eventually it says, "We don't know why. Because science said so." And that's where the wonder lives.

You want soulful, fulfilling feelings? Don't chase holiness. Just get curious. Learn something outside your comfort zone. Diversify your curiosity diet.

Quotable Moments

"I'm the only guy that I know who has gone from bouncer at a bar to pastor at a church."

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

"What I would want the listeners to understand is that we are more the same than we are different."

"Above all else, guard your spirit. Above all else, guard your soul. Because everything else you do flows from it."

Questions to Sit With

1. Do you want inner peace, emotional well-being, purpose, resilience, and fulfillment in your life? If yes, why are you struggling to start this journey?
2. When was the last time you allowed yourself to be fully, unapologetically yourself, like the guy at the concert?
3. What would change if you stopped seeing your soul as something to find and started seeing it as the foundation you're already standing on?

Press play above to hear the full conversation. George and Liz go deeper into their complicated relationships with religion, the common ground between believers and non-believers, and why nurturing your soul might be the unlock you've been missing.